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Deeper Things
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Eve >> This post is a conversation we had over on another site. Terral >> This is a post that goes into the deeper things. Eve >> You will notice where man is, all is separated. Terral's old >> Man is spirit, soul and body. His physical body is the 'vehicle of expression' that allows his spirit to manifest its true nature in this realm. The soul is the body (living essence) that is neither spirit or flesh; but is the 'begotten aspect' that came into being by the joining of the other two. Gen. 2:7. The spirit manifests its will; the soul judges between the spirit and the flesh, and the flesh has a mind of its own; with its own will. Gal. 5:16-18. That relationship is the setting of the stage for the battle that is now raging between the 'Spirit' and the flesh. vs. 17. The life the Christian is now living is a microcosm (smaller version) of the greater battle that has persisted between the children of light versus the children of darkness within the three witnesses of creation. It is not man and the soul that causes the separation, it was Satan and his evil forces of darkness (Eph. 6:12) that initiated the process back in the times of Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. We are the witnesses and active participants in the eternal purpose (Eph. 3:8-11 (11)) and plan of God to restore all things to its original Oneness. What is that original state? We will be there when these words are fulfilled: ". . . For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality . . ." 1Cor. 15:51-55. In other words, your spirit, soul and body will be all into the One. 1John 5:8. There is only one physical diagram that illustrates this truth to perfection, where the end result is the 'sign of the stone.' Very shortly we will be describing those things. << Eve new >> Terral asks what is that original state? The original state is as Christ own body of glory. Peter, John and James saw this in the transfiguration. Matt.17 [2] And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. Terral's reply >> The sign given to the three earthly witnesses in Matt. 17 includes the Three Witnesses of The OT becoming One, in the Person of Jesus Christ. This is a very complicated series of scenarios. In brief: Christ came to fulfill the Law and the prophets. Matt. 5:17-19. Moses is the mediator between God and Israel; the giver of the Law. Elijah is the 'prophet' of the OT that was to be manifested to Israel. Mal. 3:1 (4:5+6). The transfiguration of those two figures under the One Tabernacle is the antitype of those things, and the type that establishes what will occur through the administration suitable to the fullness of times (Eph. 1:9+10); New Jerusalem. Gal. 4:26, Rev. 21:1+2. The mystery of New Jerusalem is understood by comparing it to the forming of Adam in Gen. 2:7; except New Jerusalem is a 'heavenly man,' with many members taken from the seed of the woman. Moses, Christ and Elijah are the three heads of that coming Heavenly Administration. Relate Elijah to the 'Spirit,' and Christ to the 'Blood,' and Moses to the 'Water.' That represents 'one set' of the three witnesses of 1John 5:8. It is through this administration that all things are summed up into Christ. Eph. 1:9+10. The smaller version of the 'mystery' is that we are now being summed up into Christ; even as we speak. A smaller version still, is that this process is now going on for each and every individual; for each member of the body of Christ. 1Cor. 15:51-55. The goal is the replacement of the Old heavenly administration, under Satan, with the New Administration under the Son. The creation is being cleansed of Satan and his forces of darkness. That is exactly what is now going on within each and every member of the body of Christ. It is Creation itself that is being conformed to 'our' image. Rom. 8:20+21 (21). For study, follow the line of the 'image': Christ is the image of God (Col. 1:15); we are being conformed to the image of the Son (Rom. 8:29), and creation into our image. vs. 21. You said it above: "and His raiment was white as 'Light.' The children of darkness are being transformed into the children of 'light.' Acts 26:16-18, Eph. 3:9, 5:8-13, Col. 1:12. -------------------- Eve >> Anything that man has marred God will destroy and make new. And God tells Jeremiah this, in Jeremiah 18:1-4. Whatever pleases God to make this He will make... the old man (Rom. 5:12-21; Eph. 2:1-3; 4:17-19) made to be a new man (2 Cor. 5:17; Eph. 2:10); the old covenant made to be a new covenant (Jer. 31:31-33; Heb. 8:7-13; 10:16), Israel made into a new nation (Matt. 21:43), heaven and earth of old (Rom. 8:22) made new (2 Peter 3:13), and Jerusalem will be a new Jerusalem. The things that have become corrupt God will make new. "He taketh away the first that He may establish the second. The second is a new vessel "as it pleased the Potter to make it" (Heb. 10:1-23). God will overturn kings and kingdoms until the right one comes to reign (Ezek. 21:27; Isa. 32:1). He has made for us a body, a house from heaven... remade in the resurrection... like Christ's own body of glory (2 Cor. 4:14-5:2). As long as we are in this earthly house we are "absent from the Lord." The gathering and the resurrection will make these vile bodies into the glorious body of Christ (Phil 3:20,21)... then we will see victory (2 Cor. 5:4). "God giveth it a body as it hath pleased Him" (1 Cor. 15:35,38)... "Death is swallowed up in victory" (1 Cor. 15:54). Terral's reply >> We agree. However, Jerusalem above will coexist with Jerusalem below for some time, before the two become one. That is why you see David ruling over Jerusalem in Ezekiel 34:22-24, 37:24+25. This is also why you see him mentioned as 'king' (Eze. 37:24) AND 'prince forever' (vs. 25). David's time as king will be during the coming Kingdom Dispensation. He is 'prince forever' during the time that the two Jerusalem's are One. After all, when heaven and earth become one, there is only room for one . . . King; and that is Christ. Then, these words will be fulfilled: "He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David, and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever; and His kingdom will have no end." Luke 1:32+33. However, Ezekiel's words will be fulfilled here: "Blessed is the coming kingdom of our father David . . ." Mark 11:10. Note that Jesus Christ comes in glory at the 'end of the age.' Matt. 24:3 (29-31). Christ says that His kingdom is not of the world, or even of this realm. John 18:36. His Kingdom will be of this realm, when Heaven and earth become One. It is at that time that David's kingdom will become the Kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ. David will rule as king during the times of restoration of all things (Acts 3:19-21 (21). ------------------ Eve >> And there is ONE family of both (Eph. 3:15), from ONE Father. Terral's old >> Please quote Scripture, Eve. Eve new >> ... Eph. 3:15 is Scripture Terral... "Of Whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named"... Again showing the oneness "whole family in heaven and earth" NOT the families in heaven and earth... Terral's reply >> The Greek is "pas" meaning 'all, every.' Paul uses the same word in Eph. 4:14, 16 and 19. "As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves, and carried about by 'every' wind of doctrine . . ." Eph. 4:14. ". . . by that which 'every' joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part . . ." Eph. 4:16. In Eph. 3:15, the reference is to 'every' family in heaven AND earth . . ." Even in the time when the old earth and old heaven pass away, there is a 'new heaven AND a new earth.' Rev. 21:1. The 'families' of heaven are groups of different types of angelic beings; seraphim, cherubim, etc.. The families of the earth are male, female and children. -------------------- Terral old >> "For this reason, I bow my knees to the Father, from whom every family in heaven AND on earth derives its name." Eph. 3:14+15. Clearly there are many verses of Scripture that certainly show us the difference. Here is just one: "If then you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are ON EARTH." Col. 3:1+2. If the earth and the heavens were one today, then there would be nothing wrong with keeping your mind on the things of the earth. Eve new >> ... you are speaking of the body of Christ... with no mention of the bride (Israel). The earth was made to be inhabited and not by Satan forever. Scripture says: "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth" (Rev. 21:1). Do you think the new heaven has already been created? Will we reside in the new heaven or the old heaven? God is seated above the heaven and the earth in the timelessness of time. Terral's reply >> Better to say, "in the time of timelessness." New Jerusalem is our mother. Gal. 4:26. This is the place where we shall 'reside' as the members of the body of Christ. Our duty is to judge the world below and the angels from the heavenly realms. 1Cor. 6:2+3. Therefore, it is more that we dwell within Christ Himself. In other words, when a son of God is sent into the universe, for any reason, the Christ's authority is being sent with us, and in us. God will manifest His authority through Christ and through us to all creation. There will be Israel of the flesh in physical bodies, subduing the physical environment, and the members of the body of Christ in glorified bodies; both working hand in hand as One. Take that back to God's promise to Abraham in Genesis 22:17. --------------------- Eve >> Or do you think that we will only go as far as time in our resurrected body. Terral's reply >> It goes far beyond the concept of 'which kind of body.' Note that each member of the body of Christ receives the heavenly 'rewards.' 1Cor. 3:12-15, 2Cor. 5:10. Some members of the body of Christ are great in stature; some small in stature, being saved as through fire. 1Cor. 3:15. As we travel the expanse of time as that single body, the overall stature of the body of Christ will continue to grow; the lessor becoming greater, and the greater becoming greater still. The membership of the body of Christ as a whole will resemble the sign given in Egypt; the sign of the pyramid; with fewer choice stones at the very top, and many lessor stones at the bottom; Christ being the Capstone of the entire assembly; radiant and shining brightly, as a beacon to the entire universe. Our accessibility to the different realms of God's creation, seen and unseen, will be determined by the appearance of our raiment. The greater members among us will have greater accessibility and larger boundaries in which to work; with far reaching spheres of influence in the universe. Those of lessor stature will be more limited by the smaller boundaries, and thus a smaller sphere of influence and lessor rewards. The most important event in our history as the 'sons of God' will occur at the time of 2Cor. 5:10. That is when the establishment of the hierarchy among the sons will be established, and those who begin our journey at the very top of the pyramid will have the greatest opportunity to remain in that position until the end of time. That is why our works in this world are so important today; when we are being led by the Spirit and not by sight. 2Cor. 5:7. Each of us will approach that judgment (2Cor. 5:10) in the same condition. However, each of us will leave that judgment according to the stature of our rewards. That is why it is most important for each and every member of the body of Christ to seek the truth as a prize; then to preach that truth to as many others as possible. We do this in the complete knowledge that God will judge the secrets of men according to Paul's gospel. Rom. 2:16. Those who are preaching another gospel are in sad shape, indeed. Gal. 1:8+9. Those who have it wrong today will have an eternity to kick themselves in the rear for not accepting that truth; whether it be concerning the gospel, or any other precept of doctrine that is taught in the Pauline Epistles. There is never been any time, during this series of Ages, that men have had a greater opportunity to affect their own destiny so abundantly in such a very short amount of 'time.' Try to stand beyond that time of judgment, where each and every one of your works is scrutinized severely by the Lord. Make that period in time a focus point, and deliver the truth in anticipation of receiving that reward. Try to be placed as a son as high as possible under the Head, in that monumental administration called New Jerusalem. Heaven and earth will pass away, but that administration will endure until there is no more time. And that is a very, very, very long time. Those who heed these words will be counted as the most wise among the members of the body of Christ, as those who walk according to their fleshy rituals will be counted among the most foolish members of the body. -------------------- Eve >> When Stephen saw the throne of God prior to his death do you think he was seeing in time. Terral's reply >> Absolutely. Christ ascended to the right hand of God in Acts 1:10+11. Steven saw Him there in Acts 7:55+56. Paul relates to the Romans that Christ is still in that position. Rom. 8:34. The Son is not subjected back to God until 1Cor. 15:27+28. Eve >> Do you know that when you are in your resurrected body there is timelessness within time? Terral's reply >> Those barriers or boundaries are now reached from 'within' not from 'without.' To fathom these sayings means to understand the process by which the soul is knitted into our being through the union of spirit and body. Today, we are in no foundation upon which to begin teaching those things, as the firm foundation for such and undertaking has yet to be laid. Without that footing being firmly established in solid mortar, my descriptions would have no place to be laid. This would only serve to weaken the faith of the members of the body, and such descriptions will have to wait until we travel down the path in that direction. Yes, the seed can become the mighty oak; but, not in a single day. My estimation is that it takes two or three years to come to understand the mystery as a process; tying together all the types of Scripture to make it possible for the member of the body of Christ to visualize these things. Then, after that work is complete, we can being to describe the deeper things. Eph. 3:14-19 (18). ----------------------- Eve >> There are also dimensions within time that are of timelessness to you... but of time in that dimension. Terral's reply >> Nobody here is now ready to begin unlocking those doors. These things take . . . 'time.' Eve >> Do you think God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow because He is in time? Terral's reply >> No. God is the same, because He exists outside of this realm of time and space. Here is the scenario: 1. The Word and God are One in John 1:1. 2. The Word is with God in John 1:2. 3. All things (including time) are called into being in John 1:3. 4. The Word becomes flesh in John 1:14; the only begotten from the Father. 5. It is the Word/Son/Light/Life/Truth (John 14:6) that was given to the World. John 3:16. 6. All things are subjected to the Son, WITHIN the realm of this created environment. 1Cor. 15:27. 7. Then, the Son is subjected back to God, and God becomes all in all. 1Cor. 15:28. The 'time' from John 1:3 to 1Cor. 15:28 is one flash of a moment to the Almighty. Remember, He is still standing beyond the envelope of time and space. He has indwelled all things through His Word in time, but, remains the Almighty beyond this universe. Since He is still standing beyond the real of time, in timelessness, then all the events that occurred in this realm happened in that flash of an instant. God simply had 'no time' to change. Everything that is happening to the Word/Son is a microcosm of events that shall transpire in the realm of the Almighty. In other words, our journey through time is parenthetical to our true existence beyond the veil of time. That truth is the source of my statements concerning the 'dispensational aspect' of the Word's 'Sonship.' The 'time' of John 1:3 to 1Cor. 15:28 represents the dealings of God through His Word to 'every' family of the heavens and the earth, through the administration established by His Son, through His Son, and For His Son, until the end of time; when all things are then turned over to God. Every 'dispensation' that occurs within the 'dispensation of the Son' is a micro version, parenthetical to that greater dispensation, as God deals with individual households or administrations throughout this 'time.' When you go outside the dispensation of the Son, beyond the veil of time, the Word/Son is God. John 1:1, 1Cor. 15:28. ------------------------ Terral old >> If you want to take this to a deeper level. Go all the way back to Genesis 1:1 through 1:4. A battle took place in the heavenly, the light was divided from the darkness. There were three groups of spirits; those who did not fall, those who followed Satan, and those who were deceived by the works of Satan. In other words, while some of the angelic hosts actually participated in the deception, others were simply 'trapped' by the deception; like fish in the net; some good and some bad. That is what the tree in the middle of the garden was all about; Satan and his tree of good and bad seed. Partaking of that tree of spirits could land you a Cain (bad) or an Able (good). Eve new >> Yes... let us go back to Genesis... Now let us go back to the Garden. :-} Let us look again at the tree of knowledge of good and evil. On the earth stands this tree "in the midst of the garden" (Gen. 2:9). Adam and Eve partook of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, bearing fruit of that tree. The first two children that come forth are Cain and Abel... good and evil. Cain shed the blood of his brother Abel. (Gen. 4:8). Go future and Christ speaking to this generation (fallen generation) who is like their father the devil, a murderer from the beginning, did slay Christ. John.8 [44] Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. Rom.5 [19] For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Terral's reply >> Christ is the Light that came to divide the light (seed of the woman) from the darkness (seed of the serpent). Note that Adam and Eve are the representatives on this planet, in existence, that are outside that series of prophetic utterances. The Adamic Types are fulfilled in the person of Elijah. The Eve Types are fulfilled in the person of Moses. Those are hard sayings to many, but they will make perfect sense as these discussions continue. Going back to the Mount of Transfiguration, what you are seeing is the Only Begotten from the Father (Christ) with the fulfillment of the only other two 'begottens' in your Bible. The Eve type is under the Law, the servant. The Adamic type is the prophet who never saw death. You will also note that many members were baptized into the Eve type. 1Cor. 10:1-4. We are baptized into Christ (Rom. 6:3+4, Gal. 3:27) and become members of His body. Rom. 12:4+5, 1Cor. 12:27. To understand the members of the body of Adam/Elijah, you must interpret the types given in the other two witnesses. The baptism into these three bodies is what New Jerusalem is all about, until they become One. The end result is that those baptized into Adam and Eve (Elijah and Moses) will then come under the single tabernacle of Christ. That is what you see in Matt. 17:1-8, and Rev. 7:13-17. "And lifting up their eyes, they saw no one, except Jesus Himself ALONE." Matt. 17:8. Take that directly to 1Cor. 15:27+28, and you see the Son ALONE being subjected back to God. The 'three' will then be 'into the One.' 1John 5:8. That is a demonstration of the Prophet, Priest and King coming into the One. To understand the Mystery, you must come to see how the Three Witnesses of Scripture relate to one another. It is through that relationship that the understanding comes concerning the Spirit, Body and Soul. In this undertaking, as time moves forward, you will find that your Bible is a road map into the instruction of these things. Each and every event in your Bible has its place in the description of the Three Witnesses of Scripture; Creation; and Eternity. As you can probably determine by this brief introduction, there are many things to consider, and many things to be understood concerning the Mystery of Christ. Eve >> Abel's blood cries out from the ground (Gen. 4:10), for he was slain and therefore having no descendants (seeds). Abel's blood was spilled upon the ground making alive the womb of death. Christ cries out "it is finished" (John 19:30). His shed blood raises the dead or have fallen asleep. (Eph. 1:7; Col. 1:20). The "gospel" which speaks of His shed blood, is the living water that raises the seed from its tomb. Eph.2 [6] And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: Terral's reply >> Yes. The living water is the 'light of the gospel of the glory of Christ.' Cor. 4:4. Paul says, "The night has almost gone, and the day is at hand. Let us therefore lay aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light." Rom. 13:12. The night always begins the day of the Jews. This goes all the way back to Genesis 1, and the evening coming before the morning. Why are things established in this way? The 'darkness' of Genesis 1:2 resulted from the fall of Satan. The 'Light' of Genesis 1:3 is the Word dividing that darkness. The 'darkness,' then, is the prior condition, and the light is working in the darkness. Paul says, "Therefore, do not go on passing judgment before the 'time,' but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to 'light' the things hidden in darkness and disclose the motives of men's hearts (Rom. 2:16); and then each man's praise will come to him from God." 1Cor. 4:5. Again, darkness is the prior condition, and the coming light divides that darkness. The Word/Son is that 'Light.' Those becoming the 'sons of light' are those now being called 'through' our gospel. 2Thes. 2:13+14. Paul says, "therefore do not be partakers with them; for you were FORMERLY darkness, but now you are LIGHT in the Lord; walk as children of LIGHT." Eph. 5:7+8. Then, read on through verse 14. -------------------- Eve >> That is why Paul says, which by the way is the Holy Spirit speaking: "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we Him no more." (2 Cor. 5:16). Terral's reply >> Absolute truth. Those who have yet to see the mystery of Christ still recognize Him according to the flesh, instead of as the Light. "There was the true Light which, coming into the world enlightens every man." John 1:9. John writes, "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already (Genesis 1:4+5, John 1:4+5), because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten SON OF GOD. And this is the judgment, that the light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the light; for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed." John 3:18-20. Herein lies a key, for those who currently have sight: The dispensation of the Adamic race is parenthetical to the dispensation of the Son. The judgment (Rev. 20:11-15) commenced already back in the time of Genesis 1:4+5. That was the event that took place after the fall of Satan, in the times between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. Those who do not come to the light are judged already. Their lives on this planet were carried out as they stood in the presence of God as the children of darkness. They never made the transition into the 'Light' to become a child of the light. All the events of Genesis 1:6-Rev. 20:15 will occur before the establishment of New Jerusalem in Rev. 21:1+2. That marks the first day of the week of the next series of Ages. We are now living in the days of the carrying out of the Judgment of God against those who would remain as children of wrath/darkness. Peter says, "But the present heavens and earth BY HIS WORD are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men." 2Pet. 3:7. Then, Peter says, "But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord 'one day' (the day of Judgment) is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." 2Pet. 3:8. Reading Genesis One in this context allows you to see how God is going to restore the "new earth" of Revelation 21:1. The members of New Jerusalem will then take their places in the three parts of that administration in the likeness of the forming of Adam in Genesis 2:7. The difference is that this time there will be no . . . fall. Then, the words of Ecc. 1:9-11 will be fulfilled, and nobody will even remember thing things of these evil days. Our Genesis from that day forward will begin in Revelation 21:1. ---------------------- Eve >> Partaking of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good an evil brings forth seed, which is what we see happens to Adam and Eve. From what they partook of in the Garden of Eden... is the seed that was implanted in her and we see the results in her first two children, Cain and Abel. The gospel is the message of truth that carries the Seed, the word concerning Christ. (Rom. 10:17). That gospel implants Christ in you (Col. 1:27), Who is the Seed (Gal. 3:16). "Whereunto He called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ." (2 Thess. 2:14). Their "glory" in the garden became fallen. The gospel is a womb of the seed... obviously the "tree of knowledge of good and evil" was a type of womb that carried seed as well. Terral's reply >> We agree. The symbolic expressions go like this: The Tree of Life is the Light that was sent from God into the world. Gen. 1:3, John 1:4+5. Adam was to be a witness of that Light, as was John in John 1:6. Satan, and those fallen into his darkness, are symbolized by the other tree in the Garden. The fact that this tree was in the 'middle' of the garden is evidence that the darkness had yet to be separated by the Light. Adam and Eve were not to enter into this region, where things were yet to be separated. That would make them as those who had already fallen into the darkness. The title 'tiller of the ground' is given to Adam, and he was to prepare the earth and ground within the hearts of those fallen, allowing them to receive the Light. Adam is the witness that goes before the Light. John 1:6-9. That is correct; tie together the person of John the Baptist/Elijah (Matt. 11:14), directly to . . . Adam. Eve >> Because the beginning of man in the garden is a planting, you will see a lot of things pertaining to and coming forth from the womb, or a type like the womb. And even the Lord says to Eve after the fall: "I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children" (Gen. 3:16). What sorrow... all the children coming forth born of man are born in sin and death has become the gatherer. Terral's reply >> We agree. Eve >> Let us go future out of the Garden to Mary... Jesus' mother. It appears when you hear and believe, you are eating of the fruit of those words. In every fruit then, is seed. Mary believed the angel's message and conceived the Seed, without being with a man. We believe the gospel message and receive; Christ in us. Eve heard the serpent's words... believed the serpent by taking (a work) a fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, which was seed she received, and we see the results in her first two children. Because of the work done in the Garden, the gospel is received by no works. (Eph. 2:8,9). Terral's reply >> There are other types also: Moses was instructed to 'speak to the rock (1Cor. 10:5) before their eyes, that it may yield its water.' Num. 20:8. Instead, Moses, "lifted up his hand and struck the rock twice with his rod . . ." Num. 20:11. Moses was going the way of 'works' instead of 'faith,' as if the water came forth by his work. It was for that reason that Moses was not allowed to lead the people into the Promised Land (Num. 20:12) ; a type of heaven itself. And that is why Elijah came alone to fulfill the prophecies. Mal. 3:1-4, 4:5+6, Matt. 3:3, etc.. You will note that Christ came in water and blood. 1John 5:6. Elijah/John/Adam came in the spirit. Luke 1:15-17 (17). Christ, then, assumed the position of 'water' in the place of Moses, who was not allowed, and never will be allowed to lead this people into the Promised Land. A deeper study of the types will reveal that those members baptized back into Moses (1Cor. 10:2; note the sea and cloud; the water types), will become those members that are married to Christ in Rev. 19:5-10 (See Hosea 2:19+20). Moses, then, can be clearly seen as person of Eve, who is baptized back into Adam; the exact reversal of the events of Genesis 2:20-24. PS. We have now come to the time that the foundation for the next series of discussions must be laid. We are now getting into the area of the 'meat' of the Text; grown men cannot live on milk forever. And again, I fully expect to lose some along the way. That is just the way it is: A few stones at the very top and many at the bottom. Those who are still standing at the end will eliminate all the seeming contradictions from their Bible; becoming adept at utilizing the types of the Text, coming to the knowledge of the mystery of Christ, and well able to see the wisdom being demonstrated throughout God's Word as the One thing. 1John 5:8. Your Bible is not Two Testaments, but it is Three Witnesses of Spirit (OT), Water (NT) and Blood (Paul's Epistles). The Mystery is the soul of your Bible, and that tabernacle will grow to become the covering (garment) of your entire Bible. Paul says, "Let a man regard us in this manner, as servants of Christ, and as stewards of the mysteries of God." 1Cor. 4:1. See Eph. 3:1-11, and read every word; taking it all to your heart as God's words 'to' you, as an individual. ------------------- Eve >> And God said "behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat." (Gen. 1:29). Adam, likewise listened to the woman, partook of the fruit of the tree... being one with Eve, we see the results in their first two children. We see Cain and Abel coming forth making it perfectly clear the "tree of knowledge of good and evil" produces seed. Because they died a spiritual death immediately when they ate of the tree... it seems then their spirit was replaced with the spirit of the tree they ate from. Terral's reply >> Adam was all three witnesses into the one; Adam (spirit), Eve (water) and seed (blood). Eve was taken out with the seed; the two being the water and blood. The deception of Eve is likened to the war between the spirit and the flesh. Gal. 5:16-18. The flesh fell, and the spirit also fell with her; the two being one. This set the stage for the 'seed' to be brought forth from the 'seed' of that fallen tree. By grouping all the people having been born into two groups (children of light and children of darkness) you can identify the two witnesses of Rev. 11, as Adam and Eve. The first will be last. Let me say that again: The first two witnesses will be the last two witnesses, and the first two bodies to be sown will be the very last to be gathered. Eve >> Now the Lord says: "Behold, the man is become as one of Us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:-" (Gen. 3:22). They, then became like "gods" by partaking of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Note again the above verse: "the man is become as ONE of Us". Terral's reply >> Yes, but only Adam and Eve. They could not partake of the "Light" at that time, unless they would live forever in their fallen condition. Adam and Eve would then become the two witnesses of your Bible; living again and again. God is dealing with them in the flesh of their fallen state, until they are prepared to receive that 'Light.' The restoration of all things, by Elijah (Matt. 17:10+11) includes the restoration of Adam and Eve. We could write a book on that subject alone. The 'kingdom of our father David' is the same land promised to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; the same land that contained the garden of Eden; the realm of Adam from the beginning. The land of the Garden, the Promised Land, and the Kingdom of Israel on earth are the 'three into the One.' Eve >> What does "US" consist of? Let us go to Isaiah: "And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon Him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of KNOWLEDGE and of the fear of the LORD:" (Isa. 11:2). Remember the woman with the issue of blood problem, who touched the garment of Christ and was healed instantly... and He wanted to know who touched Him and was persistent in one coming forth to admit to doing this. Now, see the similarity in the garden. The woman with the issue of blood took and received... but it was not given. In the Garden, Adam and Eve took and received but it was not given, by the will of God. Terral's reply >> An interesting point, Eve. Eve >> Now let us go forward to the time of Christ's ministry: Matt.3 [10] And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Therefore one can not produce good fruit unless you are in Christ. (1 Cor. 3:6,7; 12:27). Terral's reply >> That is true today, as believing the message of truth (our gospel) is the way of receiving the Holy Spirit. Eph. 1:13+14. The words of Matt. 3 are given in a different context. The sons of disobedience were being contrasted with the sons of obedience. Read through Matthew 3:1-10 again. The 'way' of salvation, then, was the 'gospel of the kingdom.' Matt. 4:17 (23), 3:2, 10:7 (9:35), etc.. The precepts of doctrine concerning the gospel of the kingdom include faith and works (James 2:20-24), and the keeping of the Law. Matt. 5:17-19, 19:16+17, James 2:10. Therefore, the mixing of those things in this discussion will eventually bring division in the body of Christ, concerning the application of those different precepts of doctrine. However, I do see the point you are trying to establish. Eve >> Peter speaking, "Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away." (Mark 11:21). A tree with leaves but no fruit, the Lord did curse. Adam and Eve dressed themselves in aprons of fig leaves and hid among the trees. They were fallen and not bearing fruit until the Lord did "make coats of skins, and clothed them." (Gen 3:21)... which was temporary until mankind could be clothed again with immortality. (2 Cor. 5:1-4; 1 Cor. 15:53,54). They were created in the likeness of God (Gen. 5:1), remember Christ when He was transfigured. Terral's reply >> We agree. The bodies of Adam and Eve, in their prefallen state, were not of spirit or flesh, but the result of the joining of the two; becoming living souls. Gen. 2:7. The fall of Adam and Eve required them to take on the image of fallen man; in fleshy bodies of the skin of animals. Gen. 3:21. Eve >> Compare the brightness of the sun with the brightness of the moon. The original glory of Adam became fallen. The glory which Adam had, was the mere image or reflection of the original as the moon reflects the light of the sun. "There is one glory of the sun, an another glory of the moon" (1 Cor. 15:41). Obviously the tree of knowledge of good and evil was not a tree and if it were, it was a living tree in a great form like that of a king fixed with every stone in all brilliance, something great in appearance.. than that of man (Adam/Eve)... for even though they were in the image of God, they desired to partake of the fruit of this thing (tree). Terral's reply >> I disagree with part of this: We cannot calculate the amount of time that Adam existed in His 'begotten' state. There is 'time' between Gen. 2:7 and 2:20-24. Also, Eve was deceived; not Adam. 1Tim. 2:14. There is no reason for us to assume that Adam would have eaten of the fruit, unless it was fed to him by his wife/body/living waters. Mark the number of Adam's years in your Bible by the day that he received that 'skin' of animals. Gen. 3:21. They did not have any children until after they assumed this state. Adam, being the spirit half, then shared a common 'soul' with Eve; the water half. The fruit of the tree then came between them; into the soul position. The seed of the woman, then, became flesh as the living soul, but, in the likeness of the fallen 'man'; the 'man' Adam and Eve. -------------------- Terral old >> It is the work of Prophecy for each and every one of the members of that tree to become flesh in this world. John the Baptist says, "And the axe is already laid at the root of the trees; every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire . . . And his winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor (the place of the harvest); and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." Matt. 3:10-12. Those 'trees' have come from the 'fruit' of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. God is now calling us through 'our gospel.' 2Thes. 2:13+14 (Rom. 8:28-30). Blessed are all those who are obedient to the gospel and are saved from the wrath of God that is certainly coming (Rom. 5:9+10). Rev. 20:11-15. << Eve new >> The work of prophecy??? It is because of the disobedient Adam [Adam/Eve] that "It is appointed unto men once to die" (Heb. 9:27; Gen. 3:19; Eccles. 3:20). Terral's reply >> You missed the point, or I am missing yours. Those words of 'Prophecy' are given in Gen. 3:15 concerning the seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent. The seed of the woman would become those 'living' as the children of light, through the Seed, Jesus Christ. Gal. 3:16. Those remaining in darkness are the seed of the serpent. All of this points back to the dividing of the light from the darkness in Genesis 1:4+5, John 1:4+5. ------------------- Eve >> Many see the angels as greater than man, but we see they are servants and the Living Word was made a lower [on earth] than angels [the heavens] (Heb. 2:7) to bring the family back together as one and the earth and heavens as one with heaven. Terral's old >> Time is a factor in this process. Prophecy concerns Israel of the flesh (Rom. 9:1-5), while the Mystery concerns Israel according to the promise (Rom. 9:6-8). Yes, the two shall become one, but that is a process that occurs down the road; in 'time.' << Eve new >> The statement stands as it is yet future. (Rev. 21:1,2; Isa. 51:16 new planting; Isa. 65:17,18). Terral's reply >> We agree. ------------------ Terral old >> There are 'men' and there are 'men.' Some here are 'saved' and some are 'unsaved.' Peter says, "But the present 'heavens and earth' by His Word are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of UNGODLY MEN." 2Pet. 3:7. How do those men stand in regard to the 'angels' of the Almighty? "Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed should come to whom the promise was made." Gal. 3:19. God could not give the law through the angels if they were indeed lower than men. << Eve new >> What does David say about the Law? Pss.119 [126] It is time for thee, LORD, to work: for they have made void thy law. And when do we see the LORD work? Terral's reply >> We are addressing your statements about angels and men. Eve quotes >> John.14 [10] Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. [11] Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. [12] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. John.17 [4] I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. Eve quotes >> Luke.20 [36] Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. Terral's old >> Christ is addressing a time after the 'resurrection.' Luke 20:35. It is not that these men are 'equal' to, but they are 'like angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection." Luke 20:36. However, these words are directed to those who are married to Christ in Rev. 19:5-10. We are members of His body (Rom. 12:4+5), and sons already. Rom. 8:14-16. The Four Gospels describe what the member of the kingdom will attain in the future; on the last day. John 6:40. Paul's Epistles describe what we have already attained through Paul's gospel. Rom. 8:28-30 (Eph. 2:4-7, Col. 3:1-4, Phil. 3:20, etc..) << Eve new >> We are also part of a gathering and a resurrection being like angels... whether bride or body... we are still a new creation made... "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, ... (Eph. 2:10). Terral's reply >> We are becoming that new creation 'in' Christ Jesus through Paul's gospel. 2Cor. 5:16-21, 2Thes. 2:13+14. Israel and the bride, is coming under His Headship in Rev. 19:5-10. We shall become one as the soul is one with the body. And yet, the body is not the soul. It is with those saved through the 'eternal gospel' (Rev. 14:6), and the 'mystery of Adam' that these members of water will be assimilated or 'baptized' into the 'soul' section of New Jerusalem. That is a process that will take until the 'end of time.' Those members of the bride will work for their place in the body for eternity. The words of James 2:20-24 will apply to the bride throughout God's dealings with them. We are indeed fortunate to become the members of the body of Christ through faith apart from works (Rom. 3:27+28, 4:5+6) through this dispensation of God's grace. Eph. 3:2. People today do not realize just how fortunate they really are to be called through 'our gospel.' 2Thes. 2:13+14. Thank you very much for writing on this thread, and being my sounding board for the introduction of these things. In Christ, Terral
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